I have one node that has two wireless interfaces. I was thinking to increase somewhat the multi-hop bandwidth loss and what is the best way of doing that. Currently I have ath0 with two nodes on there and ath1 with another two nodes but I'm not bridging those two interfaces. The thing is, they are on the same subnet so is there any point in keeping them "separate", any performance advantage, or should I just make a bridge and add the two ath's to it and just have a single IP and run batman on that one bridge or leave it as it is, with two IPs from the same subnet and run batman ath0 /w ath1 /w as I do currently?
Pele
Hello Pele,
bridging multiple interfaces is probably not a good idea, because as soon as you have a cycle there will be bridging loops. The frames will cycle until they are droppend and there is no TTL to stop them! :) In Ethernet, a solution for this is STP [1], which will cut off (one of) the links in the loop, but probably the good ones, so that is not what you want. That is what the mesh is supposed to do. But bridging would not bring you any performance increase anyway, so i'd suggest to stick with your current setup. (if you want to have only IP per interface for some reason, you can also have a look at batman-advanced). To increase multi-hop bandwidth you should better try the standard wifi ways to reduce interferences/packet loss. E.g. try to switch off rts, switch on fragmentation, limit baserate etc.
Best regards Simon
[1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanning_Tree_Protocol
On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 11:18:38AM +0200, Predrag Balorda wrote:
I have one node that has two wireless interfaces. I was thinking to increase somewhat the multi-hop bandwidth loss and what is the best way of doing that. Currently I have ath0 with two nodes on there and ath1 with another two nodes but I'm not bridging those two interfaces. The thing is, they are on the same subnet so is there any point in keeping them "separate", any performance advantage, or should I just make a bridge and add the two ath's to it and just have a single IP and run batman on that one bridge or leave it as it is, with two IPs from the same subnet and run batman ath0 /w ath1 /w as I do currently?
Pele
B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
Thanks, so I'll keep it as it is then as far as interfaces are concerned.
I would love to try out batman-adv with layer2 (as I truly believe that is the only way forward in meshes) but as it stands all my routers are on rooftops and if I mess something up I'm stuck! This way, I just keep updating batmand and it works (but not as fast as I'd like it to be).
I've tried to play with FRAGmentation but setting it to anything other than off (2346) the transfer (I use wget ftp://host/file) stops. I played with RTS and I really don't know what to say. It is SO FRUSTRATING! Yesterday I've had the mesh set up and it ran OK (1.7Mbps between two nodes - is there ANYONE that gets 11Mbps, EVER?) but today nothing works. And it just keeps driving me crazy. Every day I have to reset and re-test and fiddle with it. I just need settings that work. I just can't believe that with my rssi of 17-20, which looks decent enough, I cannot get consistent performance. I believe madwifi drivers also have a big role to play in my frustration. Also this mixture of Broadcom and atheros is driving me crazy. 4 atheros and 1 broadcom, and Broadcom just keeps quitting. After a day or two it disassociates and disappears, then I have to go over and unplug it. MAD!
I wish there was someone out there who knows wireless inside-out and who would be able to spare a day in helping me with getting this thing going. As it stands, it just makes me want to give it all up and become a farmer or something.
Pele
-----Original Message----- From: Simon Wunderlich [mailto:simon.wunderlich@s2003.tu-chemnitz.de] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:35 PM To: pele@balorda.com; The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking Subject: Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Node with two wireless interfaces - to bridge them or not?
Hello Pele,
bridging multiple interfaces is probably not a good idea, because as soon as you have a cycle there will be bridging loops. The frames will cycle until they are droppend and there is no TTL to stop them! :) In Ethernet, a solution for this is STP [1], which will cut off (one of) the links in the loop, but probably the good ones, so that is not what you want. That is what the mesh is supposed to do. But bridging would not bring you any performance increase anyway, so i'd suggest to stick with your current setup. (if you want to have only IP per interface for some reason, you can also have a look at batman-advanced). To increase multi-hop bandwidth you should better try the standard wifi ways to reduce interferences/packet loss. E.g. try to switch off rts, switch on fragmentation, limit baserate etc.
Best regards Simon
[1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanning_Tree_Protocol
On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 11:18:38AM +0200, Predrag Balorda wrote:
I have one node that has two wireless interfaces. I was thinking to increase somewhat the multi-hop bandwidth loss and what is the best way
of doing that.
Currently I have ath0 with two nodes on there and ath1 with another two nodes but I'm not bridging those two interfaces. The thing is, they are on the same subnet so is there any point in keeping them "separate", any performance advantage, or should I just make a bridge and add the two ath's to it and just have a single IP and run batman on that one bridge or leave it as it is, with two IPs from the same
subnet and run batman ath0 /w ath1 /w as I do currently?
Pele
B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
Hi -
Fragmentation is broken in current Madwifi. Every packet bigger than the fragmentation value will not be send. This is bad, because fragmentation is pretty important for smooth data transfers.
Another notorious problem is IBSS cell-splitting, you can fix that by using
iwconfig athX ap 02:CA:FF:EE:BA:BE (or whatever cell-id you wish)
Also it is recommended to select the ministrel rate adaption mechanism when loading the driver.
Try a recent Madwifi version from OpenWRT Kamikaze (i.e. get the OpenWRT patches and apply them to the Madwifi version used in OpenWRT).
cu elektra
Hi,
my name is Solon and I'm trying to build a wifi network for the Studentendorf Schlachtensee in Berlin. For various reasons, I'd like to integrate BATMAN Advanced into the ROBIN-FW or any other FW that makes deployment through people without any IT-knowledge possible.
My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge, who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give me an inside look into the recent builds?
Thx in advance...
solon
Hi -
I usually spend my wednesday evening there.
cu elektra
Hi,
my name is Solon and I'm trying to build a wifi network for the Studentendorf Schlachtensee in Berlin. For various reasons, I'd like to integrate BATMAN Advanced into the ROBIN-FW or any other FW that makes deployment through people without any IT-knowledge possible.
My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge, who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give me an inside look into the recent builds?
Thx in advance...
solon
B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
Hi,
My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge, who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give me an inside look into the recent builds?
I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation. I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a little workshop ?
Greetings, Marek
Dear Marek Lindner,
on Sonntag, 6. April 2008 at 18:39 you wrote:
Hi,
My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge, who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give me an inside look into the recent builds?
I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation. I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a little workshop ?
A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space, 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
bye
solon
Hi,
I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation. I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a little workshop ?
A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space, 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
sounds very cool - we should do that.
@cven: Can you help preparing that ?
Greetings, Marek
ML> Hi,
I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation. I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a little workshop ?
A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space, 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
More to come:
Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use all the existing facilities:
Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for 50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 1:00).
Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be arranged, breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a bed&breakfast room on site for €24.
Public transportation:
BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)
bye
Solon
Hi -
at the Wireless Community Weekend (May 2nd-5th in Berlin/Germany @ C-Base) there will be a test with 20+ Foneras running RO.B.I.N.
The B.A.T.M.A.N. developers will be around (maybe we'll miss Axel, he wasn't sure whether he will be in Berlin on time).
If you have the time, join us!
cu elektra
WCW Venue: c-base e.V. rungestrasse 20 10179 berlin (center)
ML> Hi,
I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation. I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a little workshop ?
A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space, 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
More to come:
Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use all the existing facilities:
Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for 50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 1:00).
Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be arranged, breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a bed&breakfast room on site for €24.
Public transportation:
BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)
bye
Solon
B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
Hi -
correction: May 2nd-4th not May 2nd-5th.
cu elektra
Hi -
at the Wireless Community Weekend (May 2nd-5th in Berlin/Germany @ C-Base) there will be a test with 20+ Foneras running RO.B.I.N.
The B.A.T.M.A.N. developers will be around (maybe we'll miss Axel, he wasn't sure whether he will be in Berlin on time).
If you have the time, join us!
cu elektra
WCW Venue: c-base e.V. rungestrasse 20 10179 berlin (center)
ML> Hi,
I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation. I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a little workshop ?
A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space, 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
More to come:
Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use all the existing facilities:
Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for 50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 1:00).
Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be arranged, breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a bed&breakfast room on site for €24.
Public transportation:
BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)
bye
Solon
B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
Hello Solon,
thank you for the offer, but i really think we should do this workshop in the c-base, because all people will be assembled there, and i'm sure there are some people who will join us spontanously.
It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.
Best Regards, Simon
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:39:11PM +0200, Solon Lutz wrote:
ML> Hi,
I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation. I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a little workshop ?
A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space, 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
More to come:
Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use all the existing facilities:
Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for 50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 1:00).
Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be arranged, breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a bed&breakfast room on site for €24.
Public transportation:
BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)
SW> Hello Solon,
SW> It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that SW> we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for SW> the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.
I'll bring plenty of FONs with me, but I can't be there on friday. Expect my arrival on saturday 11-12am.
Regards, Solon
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Solon Lutz schrieb:
SW> Hello Solon,
SW> It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that SW> we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for SW> the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.
I'll bring plenty of FONs with me, but I can't be there on friday. Expect my arrival on saturday 11-12am.
stupid question: will this be a batman l2 test or a robin test?
Regards, Solon
Alex
Dear Alexander Morlang, on Donnerstag, 1. Mai 2008 at 20:27 you wrote:
Solon Lutz schrieb:
SW> Hello Solon,
SW> It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that SW> we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for SW> the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.
I'll bring plenty of FONs with me, but I can't be there on friday. Expect my arrival on saturday 11-12am.
stupid question: will this be a batman l2 test or a robin test?
A. Try out BATMAN-L2 B. Try to integrate it into the ROBIN-FW
Best regards,
Solon Lutz
+-----------------------------------------------+ | PyroDesign Berlin - Creativity for tomorrow | | Wasgenstrasse 75/13 - 14129 Berlin, Germany | | www.pyro.de - phone + 49 - 30 - 48 48 58 58 | | info@pyro.de - fax + 49 - 30 - 80 94 03 52 | +-----------------------------------------------+
hi
will it be some day technically possible to use the marvel wifi chip of the laptop to join the mesh network or is always a router needed?
Why can´t that drawn to the laptops with a software solution ?
Max
Hi Max -
this is solely a issue of malfunctioning drivers/ WiFi cards in ad-hoc mode. The proprietary Broadcom driver for 2.4 Linux kernels shipped with devices like Linksys WRT54GL, Buffalo WHR-G54S, Asus WL500GP works flawlessly.
The Madwifi driver for Atheros cards works but still has issues that developers are working on. The best working Madwifi driver seems to come with OpenWRT.
This is basically what works at the moment. Most Intel drivers have issues (there are firmware issues as well, as I have experienced with IPW2200). IPW2100 seems to work, IPW3945 works more or less with some tricks (and occasional firmware errors).
Marvel drivers are nowadays shipped with the Linux kernel, but because I lack Marvell hardware I couldn't test it in ad-hoc mode.
In general the ad-hoc mode has been widely neglected by manufacturers and developers. From the first day I started to work on mesh networks I have been battling with firmware/driver issues. But as more and more people start using mesh networks the demand for working drivers is increasing. So we can expect that - finally, after many years - the situation will improve quickly.
cu elektra
hi
will it be some day technically possible to use the marvel wifi chip of the laptop to join the mesh network or is always a router needed?
Why can´t that drawn to the laptops with a software solution ?
Max
B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
elektra schrieb:
Hi Max -
this is solely a issue of malfunctioning drivers/ WiFi cards in ad-hoc mode. The proprietary Broadcom driver for 2.4 Linux kernels shipped with devices like Linksys WRT54GL, Buffalo WHR-G54S, Asus WL500GP works flawlessly.
The Madwifi driver for Atheros cards works but still has issues that developers are working on. The best working Madwifi driver seems to come with OpenWRT.
i would like to point out that felix from openwrt is looking for bugs to fix, as he is running out of madwifibugs.
so, if there is a openwrt-madwifi breakage, please contact him. <removed>
cu elektra
hi
will it be some day technically possible to use the marvel wifi chip of the laptop to join the mesh network or is always a router needed?
Why can´t that drawn to the laptops with a software solution ?
Max
b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org
-
Alexander Morlang -
elektra -
M. Peterson -
Marek Lindner -
Predrag Balorda -
Simon Wunderlich -
Solon Lutz