Hi Guido,
In both configurations described, there's one router running batman and the other connected via ethernet which is not. The function of the latter is just to forward batman packets between ethernet and wifi. That way the batman routers see alternative paths to their neighbours through their ethernet interfaces.
For this to work, however, it's necessary to do something in the router which doesn't run batman, because a normal ad hoc interface using 2 MAC addresses doesn't work in a bridged configuration. That's why Simon suggested the 4-addr mode in ad hoc, but unfortunately, we found that with ath9k it's not possible to use that mode. So we began with the configuration 1) where we didn't use ad hoc, but instead we tried with ap and sta using wds (a mode with 4-address for access points and stations). As mentioned previously, the problem with this configuration was that as we were using both ap and sta bridged in the same non-batman forwarding router (to achieve alternative paths between all nodes), the batman broadcast packets were being forwarded directly.
That's where we tried with ebtables + ad hoc (config 2). This way using ebtables and the cloned MACs we don't need 4-addr mode, and the batman routers see the alternative paths through their ethernet interfaces. But for this to work, the batman routers need to use ebtables also, not just the forwarding routers, because we change the dst MACs in both the forwarding and the batman routers. And for using ebtables in a router running batman, we had to add eth0 to a bridge, and then add the bridge to bat0, that's what i was saying with that sentence. Look at this thread:
https://lists.open-mesh.org/pipermail/b.a.t.m.a.n/2010-May/002716.html
By the way, we're using batman-adv 2012.0.0
Anyway, all this was just to achieve link alternation using two routers with 1 radio each. With 2 radios it would be much better i guess. Please tell me if something is still unclear.
Best regards
Gabriel
El 14/07/2012 06:35 p.m., Guido Iribarren escribió:
Ah, i missed this sentence "In the normal configuration with batman managing eth0 it doesn't work." why? How was the setup? Which batman version? I came across something like this (reported in a previous thread) but so far i haven't had spare time to reproduce it again to debug it.
On 7/14/12, Guido Iribarren guidoiribarren@buenosaireslibre.org wrote:
You can try taking eth0 out of the bridge and adding it to bat0 that way you wouldn't need to mess with ebtables? As there would be no bridged interfaces, batman would be the only one forwarding packets between eth0 and wlan0. With hop penalty.
On 7/13/12, gtolon@inti.gob.ar gtolon@inti.gob.ar wrote:
Hi.
We've been trying two different configurations to use link alternation with two routers conected via ethernet. In both cases in each pair of routers one runs batman and the other only forwards traffic between ethernet and wifi, as Simon suggested:
- First in the forwarding routers we configured an AP and a station,
both using wds. The idea was to form a chain of pairs of routers, where each forwarding router were connected to the previous and the next forwarder using those sta and AP interfaces, as can be seen in conf_1.png. Unfortunately we found that with this configuration the broadcast batman packets were forwarded through all the chain without any batman processing. For example, Batman 1 sends an Originator which goes out through its ad hoc interface, and also through ethernet, then Forward 1 sends it through its sta to Forward 2. In Forward 2 the sta, ap and ethernet interfaces are bridged, so the Originator goes to Batman 2 via ethernet (that's ok) but also goes directly to Forward 3 without the hop penalty applied. As a result Batman 3 sees the ethernet interface of Batman 1 as a direct neighbour with a good quality. In a longer chain the result would be the same.
- A solution to the first configuration could be use some ebtables
rules, but using ebtables we directly tried with normal ad hoc interfaces. So we used the configuration seen in conf_2.png. We cloned the MACs of the Batman ethernet interfaces to the ad hoc interfaces. That way the packets destined by Batman to the ethernet interfaces of their neighbours enter through the wireless interfaces because they have the same MAC. Once inside the Forwarding routers we use this rule:
ebtables -t broute -A BROUTING -i wlan0 -d <MAC1> -j dnat --to-dst <MACX> --dnat-target ACCEPT
So changing the dst MAC the packets are forwarded through ethernet. In the BATMAN routers we used this rule to change again the dst MAC:
ebtables -t broute -A BROUTING -i eth0 -d <MACX> -j dnat --to-dst <MAC1> --dnat-target ACCEPT
For using ebtables with Batman we had to attach eth0 to a bridge, and add that bridge to batman. In the normal configuration with batman managing eth0 it doesn't work. For the reverse path, packets entering to Forwarding routers from Batman routers it wasn't necessary to use any rule, we just saw many warnings advicing that packets with own address as source address were received.
We had read in openwrt forum that ebtables could cause performance issues on routers, but we didn't notice a great difference in the tests we've made with iperf up to now.
The problem that we are facing now is the impossibility of increasing the MTU of ethernet interfaces in the routers. We saw this patch:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.embedded.openwrt.devel/14678
and thought that maybe we could increase a bit more the MTU, but we couldn't. So the other possibility is to decrease all the other interfaces MTU to 1470 and let the ethernet to 1500 right? We guess that could cause IP fragmentation in some cases.
I hope my explanations are understandable.
Best regards!
Gabriel
El 18/06/2012 03:46 p.m., gtolon@inti.gob.ar escribió:
Hi Simon, thanks for your reply!
El 15/06/2012 06:55 a.m., Simon Wunderlich escribió:
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 04:51:01PM -0300, gtolon@inti.gob.ar wrote:
Hi,
we are interested too in interface alternating, so we made sometests to understand how it works. As you can see on the attached sketch.png, we connected two pair of routers using their ethernet interfaces, E6 with E7, and E8 with E9. All of them have eth0, and an ad hoc interface, wlan0-1, managed by batman. E6 and E8 are in channel 11, whereas E7 and E9 are in channel 1. Besides we used two other routers, E12 and E13, both in channel 11, with their tx power set to just 0 dbm, to avoid a direct sight between them.
Then we sent traffic from E12 to E13. We expected that packetstravelled from E12 to E6, and that E6 forwarded them to his eth0 to use the interface alternating feature, making traffic flow to E7, then E9, E8 and finally E13. But instead, we observed that the actual path was E12--E6--E8--E13. The resulting routes for each router are attached in a text file, and also the graph from the batctl vd dot command.
After this result, we read again the thread mentioned by Guido,specially in this part:
https://lists.open-mesh.org/pipermail/b.a.t.m.a.n/2012-March/006344.html
And if we understand correctly, the alternation feature worksafter the batman path has been selected. So in our case, E12 looks at his table to know where to send a packet to E13, and finds E6. Then E6 receives the packet and looks in his own table, finding that the best path to reach E13 is E8. At this point, the alternating should work, but there's only one interface directly connected to E8, so the packet goes there, and so on. We think that if E6 and E7 were not two different routers running batman-adv but they were two radios of the same batman-adv router, and the same for E8 and E9, the alternating would work, because the unique router would choose the best path, and then would find two possible interfaces to the same next-hop, changing the interface.
This is entirely correct - batman-adv has only one link to choose from (E6 -> E8) to reach its best nexthop E8, so there is no way to "alternate" the interfaces.
We'd like to know if this interpretation is correct, and in thatcase, if it were possible to use interface alternating in a case like this, with two routers connected to work together. Thanks!
Mhm, with the current implementation - no, unfortunately not. We would need some kind of multipath routing to select between routes, this is much more complex.
Ok, i understand.
An alternative might be to use the routers E7/E9 as secondary routers without batman, but only forwarding traffic between Ethernet and WiFi. Then the "primary" routers (E6 -> E8) would think they have an alternative route via Ethernet (because they don't see the intermediate hops E7/E9). This comes with some caveats however, e.g. 4-addr mode in Ad-Hoc, you need some very simple ethernet forwarder, and most probably other things I forgot.
We had tried with something like that using ap and sta modes in E7 and E9, and it hadn't worked. Thanks to your suggestion we noticed the necessity of the 4-address mode, so we are now trying with wds:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/recipes/atheroswds
Unfortunately, we haven't found yet a way to use 4-address mode in ad hoc. Apparentrly, it's not possible:
http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Documentation/iw#Using_4-address_for_AP_an...
Best Regards
Gabriel